Producing Music for Families (Tor Hyams / Dean Jones)

I can't remember when I first realized that producing kids music was a new sub-specialty I wanted to investigate, though it couldn't have been hurt by the kids music production panel at this year's Kindiefest. But more significantly, it just seemed to me like in the past year, more artists were securing help in recording their albums, and I was curious why that might be happening.

I spoke with a couple of the producers on the panel, Tor Hyams and Dean Jones, last month, prior to their panel in Brooklyn about producing albums. Hyams has produced kids albums by Frances England, the Okee Dokee Brothers, Jim Cosgrove, and Lunch Money as well as Milkshake's Grammy-nominated Great Day and his A World of Happiness compilation. (He's also produced albums for Lou Rawls and Joan Osborne, among others.) Jones' producing credits include 5 albums for his band Dog on Fleas, 2 solo disk, Uncle Rock's The Big Picture, and the forthcoming benefit compilation Many Hands: Family Music for Haiti. He's also done work for various film, stage, and TV projects -- "an awful lot of awful work for awful TV shows," as Jones jokingly puts it. They have as much broad background as any as producing albums for families these days.

Zooglobble: What do you actually do as a producer? Does that differ from project to project?
There is no single answer, and, yes, that varies from project to project. Jones notes that "the term 'producer' is a loose one - I might do exactly the same thing for 2 different artists and be called a producer on one of the records and engineer on the other."

Hyams says,

"I typically do everything from helping to finesse the songwriting, advising on song arrangements, sitting in on band rehearsals to determine sounds and arrangements, booking the recording studio, hiring musicians (if needed), planning out the recording (the order of tracking based on number of days, overdubs, etc). Once in the recording studio, I acquire all the right sounds, from getting the right amp sounds for guitar and bass to choosing the right microphones for acoustic based instruments and vocals. During the actual recording or 'getting takes,' I will often comment and advise on performance (suggest a better or different way to play a part, come up with parts on the spot and work with the musician to execute those parts), all the while making sure the recording is sonicaly rich and, ideally, doesn't sound like anyone else. All in all, I like to help create the sound of a band/artist or, at least, bring something new the the table the artist has not produced before. The ultimate goal of producing for me, though, is to serve the singer and the song, to make the best sounding recording available given the performers.

While Jones' response isn't as technical, he makes the same point -- he serves the artist:

"I think ultimately a producer should have the overall vision of a recording project in mind, and help the artist make a great record. It really can differ from project to project. A producer may be making decisions as to what songs an artist records, or have no say in that at all. Some producers have their own "sound" that they apply to every record they do, and others try to make themselves go unnoticed.

In the producer role, I like to hear what songs an artist wants to record, and try to hone in on an overall mood and sound for the record. Should it sound loose and homey or full and layered with lots of instruments and sounds? I try to find what will make each song reach its full potential."

Hyams notes that because he's been a professional recording artist, he's "been on both sides. Musicians seem to like that I can hear when they play a wrong note or chord or comment on intonation issues (maybe not the tenth time, but certainly at first!).

And Jones' work on compilation disks such as Many Hands is another beast entirely:"It's more about emailing and waiting for emails than making music. I can see why I don't like very many compilation CDs. It's easy to be lead away from one's original vision. You have very little control. But I must say, with the Many Hands CD, I held on to a belief that the musicians would come through and be on the mark, and I was pleasantly rewarded!"

Is there a difference between producing kids' albums and albums for adults?
Yes and no, Jones and Hyams differ a bit here. Jones says, yes, that the main thing for him is "keeping them short and exciting -- kids are very receptive listeners, and they don't need to be hit over the head with tons of aural information. Too many layers of instruments and not enough breathing room will tire kids' ears out. (Mine too!!)" Hyams initially says no -- "I only know how to produce a great album to the best of my abilities and the capabilities of the act/artist" -- but subsequently notes that he is "somewhat more careful to bring out the lyric in a kindie-oriented album since kids really like to hear the lyrics so they can sing along." Another difference Hyams points out is that he's "not usually faced with issues of being or sounding 'cool' when it comes to a kids' album. Everyone on those projects just seem to want it to be pure and have good energy."

What was your favorite producing experience -- not your favorite album, just what was the best experience (kids or adult)?
Hyams recalls producing Lou Rawls, describing it as a "huge high" in his career, but also surreal:

"I remember sitting at the recording console when I was producing his vocals and, for the first time in my career, I wasn't concentrating on sound or gear or anything. I was just having a great time listening to this magical performer. Then, as if I was separted from myself, I looked over at the engineer and exclaimed 'Wow, that guy sounds exactly like Lou Rawls!'"

Hyams also credits producing Edwin McCain with changing him as a producer:

I went in, as I used to do with every album project, ultra prepared. The arrangements were done, the players were hired (including Ivan Neville!), and the studio was set. I had never been this well planned to that point. Then, Edwin said 'let's just try some stuff and see how it goes.' Basically, he threw out all my plans and only said 'I want this to be a dirty southern soul album. I want to feel like I need a shower after listening to this album.' That statement changed my life. I tossed all my preconceptions and just went along for the ride. It was a great ride! I truly learned the lesson of open-mindedness on that album. It's one of the best albums I've ever worked on."

Jones mentions Uncle Rock's recent release, The Big Picture, "banging around ideas and being really open and creative with the process." Jones did a lot of the mixing by himself and then had Uncle Rock come in to listen. Says Jones, "I like the freedom of experimenting on my own, and then having the reality check come later."

What is some of the advice you give to the artists you work with?
The producers offer advice both practical and philosophical. Practically speaking, Jones suggests that artists "find 3 or 4 songs that work really well together and build an album around them; if the other songs you have don't work with them, write more." Hyams advises that artists "practice [their] ass off before [they] even book the recording. When a musician knows their material inside and out to the point where they don't have to think about it anymore, it makes for the best recording because the artist becomes detached from their creation. They approach it in a way that is free from any previous precious feeling they had about their song or their performance."

As for the philosophical side, both producers have similar takes. Jones notes, "Stay loose. Have fun. It won't sound fun unless you're having fun." Hyams seeks energy in performances that translates to listeners -- "Savant musical talent is great, but honesty and authenticity of a performer is much more desirable. Ideally, you get both!"

Also, Jones comments on the difficulty of working with others. "I think it's good to ask yourself if you will want to hear the music you are making in 5 years, or 10 years. I find that it's easy to be butting heads with people over ideas that have no relevance to you a month or more later." In some way, this advice echoes Hyams when he says that the artists should "only concentrate on the process of performing and recording, not on the end goal or what happens after."

Has producing become easier for you over time?
It's amusing to me to see how the answers from Hyams and Jones echo each other here. They both talk technology, with Hyams saying that since "technology is constantly in flux and evolving, there is always a new piece of gear to consider and a different way to make something sound good, weird or beautiful." Jones admits to missing his tape machines, which he hasn't used for a couple of years -- "they make recording easier in some ways... or maybe not." Jones also says he enjoys mixing now, which he used to "struggle" with.

But both producers say that it's philosophical approach to producing that has made things easier. Hyams says that becauses he loves producing music, "it's never difficult -- challenging, yes, but difficult, no." He notes that the greatest part of his job is he gets to learn on every project: "When I feel like I've been though it all, something happens that proves I still have so much left to learn. So, in a sense, it does get easier, but it's less the 'job' and more the 'letting go' that gets easier." Jones feels like

"it's gotten easier to look at the big picture and not get caught up in ideas and tools that just clutter up the vision, and things that don't stand the test of time. I really, honestly try not to think. Just let everything be spontaneous and inspired. Sometimes a brilliant idea doesn't hold up the next day, but I try to go with the feeling in the moment."

That's about as serendipitous a set of responses you'll probably hear about this subject...

Lloyd Miller, Small Businessman

A few months back, I asked "Is kids music recession-proof?" (The answer: no, not entirely.)

Well, someone else has asked that question, and they have a video camera and an editor, too. More importantly, the folks at Film@11.tv asked Lloyd Miller from the Deedle Deedle Dees to talk about his business. It's odd -- I tend not to think about musicians as businessmen and women, even though we just talked about it at Kindiefest. But they are, of course, and Miller has a good grasp on what's stayed steady (the big gigs) and what hasn't (the birthday parties).

And, near the very end, he also provides an origin story for the band's name. Still can't tell if he's joking.

Kindiependent Ironically Not Independent At All

At Kindiefest a couple weeks ago, one of the few sustained conversations I had was with the guys from Recess Monkey. We talked about how the key with the kids music genre is the continued sharing -- rather than fighting over limited pieces of a pie, try to make that pie bigger so everybody gets more. Especially if it's pecan pie. Mmm, I love me some pecan pie.

But I digress.

Anyway, the guys in the band said they'd been working with some of the other Seattle kids music bands to try to cross-promote their shows and music, but they didn't reveal their secret weapon, which is the most awesome name: Kindiependent, which almost makes me like the whole "kindie" name which I've never fully been able to embrace. It's a Seattle kids music collective featuring Recess Monkey, Caspar Babypants, The Not-Its, Johnny Bregar, and the Central Services Board of Education.

Check out the cool poster art from Kate Endle (Chris Ballew's wife, who's also done both Caspar Babypants covers) -- with help from Johnny Bregar and Jack Forman -- for a show on June 13th. It's the record release party for RM's The Final Funktier -- apparently it's going to be one seamless set where each band's set overlaps with the one preceeding it.

So, yeah, Seattle's totally going all for one, one for all, 5 Musketeers-style. (And maybe more, once other Seattle folks get the word.) Other areas might be thinking the same thing, but Seattle's taken the visible step. And secured the website.

I Want My KTV!: Kidz Bop Launches Preschool Video On Demand Channel

I think it is safe to say that the opinion of Kidz Bop 'round these parts is one of -- at best -- tolerance. The half-sung/half-shouted re-workings of songs written for folks twice the age of Kidz Bop's audience have tended to annoy the adults in my audience.

Even with all that, perhaps you should become a Kidz Bop fan. Why? Because it stands to have the biggest positive impact on independent kids music of anything TV-related since Jack's Big Music Show.

For a couple years, the label's been partnering with Comcast to offer a Video on Demand channel (Cox is also now part of the partnership). Up to this point, the channel appears to have been nothing but Kidz Bop-related stuff targeted at the 6+age group, but starting this week, they've added "KB Preschool." It'll feature music videos, educational shows, live concerts and more from both signed and unsigned preschool/children artists (emphasis mine).

This month, Ben Rudnick's “A Frog Named Sam," Lalaland's "Music in You," and Milkshake's "Jump" and "Blue Bird," among others, are debuting on the channel. In months to come, expect Justin Roberts, Debbie and Friends, Sugar Free Allstars, Key Wilde & Mr. Clarke, Cathy Fink & Marcy Marxer, Uncle Rock, and more. Kinda looks like a Zooglobble (or Jitterbug) playlist, no?

If you're a Kidz Bop hater, why should you care? Well, Kidz Bop reports that Comcast and Cox reach about 30 million homes (as compared to Nickelodeon's 85 million cable households) and they get more than a million streams a month of their content on video-on-demand. Take into account the streams on their own Kidz Bop website and syndicated programming on KOL (AOL for Kids) and Yahoo! Kids, and the potential impact on those independent artists above is potentially huge. Even if you don't have Comcast or Cox (or are worried about what other videos might be interspersed between those listed above and therefore wouldn't let your kids watch it anyway), grabbing just 10% of those streams for independent music would be a pretty big deal.

So, yeah, count me as a fan. I'm as surprised as anyone. And if you're actually in one of these households, let me know what you think of the channel (and what else I've missed)...

Kindiefest 2010: Own Your [Stuff]

I've launched into a series of posts focusing on the individual artists who showcased at the 2010 edition of Kindiefest, but I thought a few words about what I took away from the conference would be appropriate before getting too far down that path.

If the thread running through last year's conference was that of community, the thread running through this year's conference was that of hard work and committing to the craft of making music for kids and families.

Or, to put it another way, committing to owning your stuff.

Except when we (or at least I) talked about it this weekend, we used an earthier word in place of (but close to) "stuff" that I don't feel comfortable using on the intrawebs. And we (or at least I) used that phrase a lot.

Danny and Sarah and Nori from The Not-Its walking around in their band trademark black and pink outfits? Owning their stuff. Recess Monkey putting together sweet little videos on the cheap? Owning their stuff. Justin Roberts playing a set so awesome that at least a couple other performing artists said that it inspired them to improve their own game and making at least one audience member literally cry? Completely and totally owning his stuff.

As I suggest above, that commitment requires time and attention to detail. The panels this year were, with the exception of my Old School Meets New School panel, technically oriented. And what I saw of the panels suggested that people can't do this lackadaiscally. The panel on videos moderated by Michael Rachap of Readeez brought to life the truism that when it comes to making videos good, fast, and cheap, you can only pick two of them (and nobody suggested dropping "good"). Though I didn't see all of the production panel, what I heard suggested that the producer wasn't necessarily going to make your life easier. Better, hopefully, but you'd be working even harder.

And the distribution panel might have been the biggest cold water splash of them all. Veronica Villarreal from E1 Music said that only 500 of 4,300 Walmarts carry music, of which most of it is TV-based. The Walmarts and Targets of the world are look for you to sell 400-500 CDs per week. Kevin Salem from Little Monster Records was again one of the most quotable folks around, pointing out that the question isn't just (from the artist to the distributor), "What are you doing to get my record into stores?," but also (from the distributor to the artist), "What are you doing to get your record out of the stores?" Said Salem in that regard, "Nothing is as powerful as doing a great show, even if it's for 10 people." In other words, you've got to take your career -- even if it's a part-time one seriously. You have to, yes, own that stuff. (Just like Cathy Fink did in giving her initial comments for the panel while accompanying herself on an electric guitar-styled ukulele.)

My own panel on "Old School Meets New School" was fun, but I'm a poor judge of that, I suppose. It was the only panel that wasn't specifically designed to be nuts-and-bolts. Instead, I viewed it mostly as an opportunity for the more experienced hands on the panel to a) reassure newer folks that this was a valuable path to travel, but b) it wasn't going to be easy. Bill Harley still sets aside an hour a day to write new stuff. That's commitment to the creative side.

Sustaining this Kids New Wave is going to take a lot of hard work and effort. You don't have to do it full time. But whatever time you give to the genre, you're gonna need to give it your full attention. If you don't own your stuff, nobody's going to do it for you.

More thoughts after the jump...
Random thoughts...

-- My nametag just said "Stefan" (no last name), but it turns out that it wasn't because my fame traveled so far only one name was necessary a la Prince or Madonna or Liberace. Just an oversight.

-- Having traveled all the way from Arizona to be at the conference (pretty sure I was the only one there from Arizona), people seeing me kept asking me the same burning question: "Is your name pronounced 'STEF-un' or 'stef-AHN'?" For the record I pronounce it the former, but my mom who named me uses the latter and I honestly don't know how somebody pronounces my name. Unless they call me "STEE-ven," in which case, yes, I notice.

-- Conferences of artists and in the Facebook era can lead to some puzzled looks. Alexandra from Alexandra and the Good Batch without green hair and Gwendolyn without her pigtails both threw me for a loop. Of course, I should talk -- my Facebook page has my face obscured by a lime-green Dan Zanes ukulele. When I went to say hello to Yosi Levin, the fact that I hadn't actually met him in person before slipped my mind. Without the uke in front of my face, it sorta confused him...

-- Heard a lot of release dates, including the release date for the next Secret Agent 23 Skidoo disk. But the most exciting news was that the Elizabeth Mitchell / Suni Paz collaboration is now public knowledge.

-- It was a great time, even if the nearly 300 people there were probably 50 more than the venue could reasonably expect to handle. As a result of the huge crowds, I was sort of forced to choose between committing to the panels or committing to chatting. I spent nearly the entire time talking and still didn't get to meet everyone. I even occasionally got confused (or just couldn't remember things). So, sorry, Dave, I get 300 disks a year and sometimes I get my facts confused and think I got a 2008 album rather than a 2009 album. So if you didn't get a chance to talk to me, drop me a line, happy to say hello.

-- And finally, thanks to Tor, Bill, Stephanie, and Mona, for a great lineup and for keeping that lineup moving in a timely manner. It was (and will be in the future) an excellent weekend.